Murky Coffee, Arlington: Hold That Espresso Between Your Knees
**UPDATE** It’s 2013 now, and it’s been a long time since this all happened. I’ve since gotten to where I’m talking about this post and the ensuing media hemorrhage onstage, and after refining the story for a few years I’ve finally got a version I’m happy with sharing. You can see it here if you like, performed at Le Poisson Rouge in NYC in March. **/UPDATE**
Maybe condescending service from a patronizing millenial at a DC coffee shop isn’t news to anyone else. But the only way I’m ever coming back to Murky Coffee in Arlington is if I’m carrying matches and a can of kerosene.
I just ordered my usual summertime pick-me-up: a triple shot of espresso dumped over ice. And the guy at the counter looked me in the eye with a straight face and said “I’m sorry, we can’t serve iced espresso here. It’s against our policy.”
The whole world turned brown and chunky for a second. Flecks of corn floated past my pupils, and it took me a second to blink it all away.
“Okay,” I said, “I’ll have a triple espresso and a cup of ice, please.”
He rolled his eyes and rang it up, took my money, gave me change. I stood there and waited. Then the barista called me over to the bar. I reached for it, and he leaned over and locked his eyes with mine, saying “Hey man. What you’re about to do … that’s really, really Not Okay.”
I could hear the capital letters in his voice, could see the gravity of the situation in his eyes.
He continued: “This is our store policy, to preserve the integrity of the coffee. It’s about the quality of the drink, and diluting the espresso is really not cool with us. So I mean, you’re going to do what you’re going to do, and I can’t stop you, but”
I interrupted. “You’re goddamned right you can’t stop me,” I said. “I happen to have a personal policy that prohibits me from indulging stupid bullshit like this — and another personal policy of doing what I want with the products I pay for.” Then I looked him right in his big wide eyes and poured the espresso onto the ice.
The whole thing was so Jack Nicholson in Five Easy Pieces:
Touching a waitress’s chest is Not Okay. Pouring the coffee onto the floor instead of the cup is Not Okay. Drinking something I paid for the way I want to drink it — that’s more than Not Okay, it’s perfectly fucking fine.
Let me put this incident in perspective: I ‘ve got a good job, a gorgeous, loving girlfriend and I haven’t been to very many funerals. This is probably the worst thing that’s going to happen to me this weekend. So in the big picture, I’m doing okay.
But mankind hasn’t evolved, physically, in thousands and thousands of years. Biologically, we are the same barefoot creatures that hunted woolly mammoths with spears and competed with cheetahs for meat on the African savannah. That’s the source of most customer rage right there: a creature with a fight-or-fight reflex that’s 250,000 years old confronted with some ridiculous, arbitrary bullshit.
Here’s how arbitrary: I was stuck there fuming for an hour or so while my girlfriend had a dance rehearsal. And then, dammit, I needed more coffee. I didn’t want to spend any more money there, but I didn’t know where the nearest Starbucks was. I’m usually a fan of local, independent businesses — but at least Starbucks doesn’t tell me how to like my coffee. So I went back up to the register.
“I would like the strongest iced beverage your policy will allow,” I said.
“How about an Americano with four shots and light on the water” asked the barista.
I’d never had one before — so I said, “sure.”
Then he turned around and filled up a plastic cup with ice, filled it 3/4 of the way with water and carefully added four shots of espresso. He stirred it gravely and handed it to me, saying “enjoy.” And you know what? I really did. You’ve got to admire someone’s dedication to craft, and rigid adherence to a strict quality control policy. I was really, really impressed. So impressed that I swallowed my rage like so much cold coffee, opened up my wallet, and left a tip in the tip jar.
**Followup**
This whole thing’s blown up pretty big over the few hours — linked on Metafilter and BoingBoing — and it’s a little embarrassing. I mean, I can freely admit that I acted like a total dick here. But it’s not like I didn’t have probable cause. This is a tiny little thing that happened and made for a funny story, but I mean, c’mon, there are wars and genocides happening. I’m making a big deal out of it on this blog, but overall, not such a bad thing.
It reminds me of Lily Tomlin’s comment about her behavior on the set of I Heart Huckabees
…Now it’s all over, and so what, and I don’t have to keep up some great pretention I’m the most dignified, eloquent, elegant, perfect, smart-thinking, kind, generous person. I’m just a plain old human with a whole bunch of flaws.
**Followup, Part 2**
You know, I was pretty much over this. For real. Then somebody emailed me a link to the owner of Murky Coffee’s public response. All I’m saying is, if you were wondering where this barista’s attitude came from, wonder no longer. It looks like it’s learned behavior from the top down.
**FINAL Followup, I SWEAR**
Look, this thing has officially gotten overexposed. Way overexposed. I’ve been writing this thing for years, and this thing is just a tiny drop in a bigger bucket of other stuff that has nothing to do with overexercised outrage. The comments are closed here because really, what can ANYONE say that’s going to add a fresh perspective? Now that the Washington Post has done a story about this, it’s officially DONE. Take a look at some of the other stuff D.Billy and I have done instead:
‘Roo Shooter
So It Goes
D.Billy: Street Interventions
Drunken Pit Bull, Healing Heart
Snake Man of Venice
We Make Memories Together, Pretty Or Not
Fight Club in Union Square
Captain America Brushes his Teeth With Whiskey
July 13th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Wow! I have a friend who also likes to drink espresso over ice, and she has had similar experiences with a coffee shop telling her it compromises the integrity of the espresso to put it on ice. I’m astonished that this has happened in more places in the world than one.
It’s ridiculous too! I mean, an Americano is watered down espresso, so why the hell should watering down the espresso with ice be any different? In fact, the ice probably waters it down less because most of the water stays frozen.
And drip coffee is just a lighter and more watery brew than the exact same beans used to make espresso, so maybe plain coffee should be a no-no at that coffee shop too!
And what about lattes and cappuccinos that use milk to dilute the espresso? Most of them are so diluted with milk that a regular coffee with cream is actually a stronger drink!
Fucking ridiculous!
July 13th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
This is a fascinating study of anger and I commend you blog… however, I am more worried about the flecks of corn floating past your pupils.
You see CORN when you’re angry? Somehow in all the grudges I ever had I never saw vegetables. Perhaps I was never angry enough… ?
July 14th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Good gravy, why didn’t the first guy just suggest you get the iced Americano? He could have said something like: it will taste better if you have this way–but if you don’t like it, we’ll make you the espresso over ice instead. Preserves their policy AND treats the customer with respect. It’s a matter of coffee, not LIFE or DEATH.
By the way, Americano=diluted espresso. Please!
July 14th, 2008 at 4:31 am
I am corrected yet again. Please see my post here and the related comments, referring to the same incident:
http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/13/welcome-to-murky-you-dont-get-it-your-way/
Glad everyone has a blog nowadays so we can have this kind of Rashomon-like discussion.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:26 am
this isn’t about coffee, this is about the barista doing his job the best he can and you totally disregarding the store policy and then proceeding to be a dick. that photo of the dollar you left speaks a ton about you. you’re an ass and i hope for the sake of the baristas at murky you don’t go back.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:47 am
Oh man, I’m gonna have to remember that FU-on-the-dollar trick. Well played.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:22 am
If that was the best the barista could do, then he sucks. If they have a drink in the same vein all he has to say was “we don’t serve expresso straight over ice because it doesn’t maintain the flavor – how about our drink XXXXX which is is similar?”
Instead it’s “we don’t do that.” Bzzt. I was 16 and in my first job when my boss told me that rule #1 that I could only say “I don’t know” if it was followed by “but I’ll find out.” It’s the same kind of thing, and Murky could keep their integrity about their product without being jerks.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:13 am
I love potato products more than anything in this world and whenever I see someone put ketchup on them, I die a little inside; however, being a sane, rational person, I respect someone else’s choices. This dude was RECEIVING MONEY to create a beverage that was apparently beneath him and his store’s policy (what happened to the customer is always right, folks?) and then had the AUDACITY to deny said beverage, potentially losing a customer and money, not to mention being a royal dick about it. Heyheyhey – you’re way out of line.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:32 am
this is probably the same type of guy that would drink coffee made from those beans that, like, lemurs poop out and say it was fucking god’s gift to coffeekind. loozer.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:39 am
I know you felt affronted by this, but there was a big sign saying what they wouldn’t do.
Also, your message to them now proudly hangs in their Hall of What Not To Do board at the register:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbridge/2667261495/in/photostream/
July 14th, 2008 at 7:44 am
I agree with a previous comment- “this isn’t about coffee, this is about the barista doing his job the best he can and you totally disregarding the store policy and then proceeding to be a dick”- I love how you neglect to mention that there is a posted written policy that Murky does not serve iced espresso drinks…perhaps if you hadn’t been such a prick in the first place the barista would have indeed suggested an alternate beverage to accomodate you…
July 14th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I’d love for Starbucks to be crushed by a privately held mom and pop biz like Murky, but it won’t happen until Murky teaches/hires folks who have interpersonal communication skills and know how to smile.
I think you were totally justified in going off on the dude. I mean, they are taking YOUR money. Just fucking make what the customer wants. That is called CUSTOMER SERVICE.
I noticed a couple of readers hinted at my same opinion without directly saying it (Jamy, Don). Customer service is just as important as the ingredients in the product you’re selling. If you are lacking in either of these departments, the consumer experience sucks … I like the coffee at Murky, but I doubt they’ll be able to grow a more successful business with the attitude a couple of their barristas have. Why do you think the above 40 crowd goes to Starbucks? The coffee is the same price, but the customer service is way better. Maybe as you get older, you have less patience for pompous assholes telling you how to drink your coffee?
In closing, I’ll continue to patronize Murky for the free Wi-Fi and $5 hot chocolate since they are the only non-Starbucks near me. Not trying to be passive-aggressive, but just not given other options.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:54 am
you need a mobile coffee machine… haven’t the astronauts invented little coffee pills for you yet… just add water… like sea monkeys…
July 14th, 2008 at 8:07 am
i am so happy to see people assuming the barista is a total dick. i know from now on let’s treat everyone in the service idustry, people that are doing their jobs the best they can, just like dirt. oh, and let’s start leaving tips that say “fuck you and your precious coffee policy” written on them just for a little fun!
and read this blog about what happened.
http://www.welovedc.com/2008/07/13/welcome-to-murky-you-dont-get-it-your-way/
and it’s called civet coffee and it tastes like poop.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak
July 14th, 2008 at 8:38 am
Dear Mr HeyHeyHey,
I witnessed the whole incident and the barista was unnecessarily condescending, which was especially offensive since we’ve been drinking coffee probably since before he could walk. He did not say, “Excuse me sir, we have a store policy against serving iced espresso because the ice dilutes the espresso and it won’t taste as good”; he behaved as if the act of drinking espresso over ice were illegal or immoral. Maybe he was just trying to do his job, but if he and his co-workers left their patronizing condescension at home, then maybe Murky would have more sales receipts on which to pay their taxes!
July 14th, 2008 at 8:38 am
You know, a lot of people go around thinking that they’re always nice, or pleasant to be around. I don’t suffer from that particular delusion. I can totally admit that I was being a dick there, and I do wish I hadn’t left that tip. But it’s over now.
But look. They can have all the policies they want, but it stops once they take my money and put the product in my hands. Giving me a big patronizing lecture about how ice dilutes the experience is infuriating enough. But turning around right after and making another espresso drink with ice AND water in it and acting like that’s okay is just laughable.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Wow! would you listen to yourselves whining about a birista that wouldn’t dilute your coffee because its company policy. Hes not in the wrong, you are. stop crying. if you want diluted coffee go to starbucks. This really isn’t that big of a deal, if you would have read the sign on the register in the first place their would be no problem, but noooo you wanted him to make an exception for you, but he wouldn’t so in your attempt to be an ass you left a tip with an obscure message on it. Grow up!
July 14th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Wow, hilarity all the way around. It sounds like a bit too much adherence to craft and product, and douchbaggery. If someone wants to buy something you should oblige them and while they’re enjoying the beverage, try to educate them. Or they should’ve tried to sell you the Americano to begin with, instead of just saying “no.”
My friends run a small, independent coffee shop and we all adore espresso–so much so that they gave out free doppio ristrettos (double-shots, pulled a little shorter so there’s less bitterness) for a month to educate the neighborhood. But they will also pour vanilla into a skim 16 oz. latté, even though it violates the espresso in every possible way.
In the summer, nothing is better than a triple shot over ice with a little heavy cream. And anyone who would rather hang up a dollar than bank it is a retard when the economy is shrinking.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Ha! Store policy or not, the fella stepped over the line when he said “Hey man. What you’re about to do … that’s really, really Not Okay.”
For fuck’s sake, it’s a goddamn drink!
July 14th, 2008 at 11:56 am
I used to go to this restaurant in the East Village that had a policy — printed on the menu — that they would not give you parmesan cheese to put on a seafood dish they served because parmesan is not traditionally part of seafood dishes in Italy.
Haven’t been back THERE for a while. Next time, though, I’m bringing my own fuckin’ parmesan.
Isn’t there some first sale doctrine for FOOD???????
July 14th, 2008 at 11:59 am
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahhaha
hahahhahaha
having spent many an hour studying at murky, i bet i know the very barista you’re talking about. that place is ridiculous. ever notice the trophy they have displayed near the espresso machines? the one that says something to the effect of “WINNER, MID-ATLANTIC BARISTA COMPETITION, HOSTED BY MURKY COFFEE”? those sons of bitches held a coffee championship and gave themselves first prize.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
A lot of aggravation all around. I think the barista screwed up when he failed to offer alternatives or explain the policy, but the store fails if they expressly disallow customers to order combinations that are easily made when there’s not a line. No one’s going to judge a store’s goods based on the quality of a beverage they had assembled in a non-standard way, and if they are, they’re a jackass anyway.
Then there’s your overcooked reaction, which kind of ignores the fact that the store seems to pride themselves on their coffee fascism. Not that it’s bad, as fascists tend to make some good espresso.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Anyone that’s worked in the service industry knows the ‘entitled customer’ that wants their drink ‘their way’
It’s a fucking pain in the arse and they always leave a shitty tip.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Interesting post, it’s a bit like when somebody orders a nice piece of meat well done. There is part of me that thinks you may as well eat your own shoe leather and that you’re not really respecting the animal that died so you can have a bit of protein.
On the other hand you’re the paying customer and you should be allowed to eat/drink what and how you like
July 14th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
As a former barista I can empathize with the policy, but not with the attitude. After repeated orders for such beverages as a “triple irish cream eXpresso” and the subsequent expressions of horror after it was tasted one may feel the need to steer the masses into buying something a little more palatable.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
“OK, espresso over ice is against store policy? Fine. I’ll take an Americano, hold the water.”
Christ. I prefer locally-owned, independent businesses to the megachains, and I realize that snobbery is part and parcel of the independent business style. But that snobbery is supposed to be something the store workers/owners *share* with their customers (as opposed to the uneducated masses who patronize the megachains), not something the store people lord over the customers on whom their livelihoods depend.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Thanks for the funniest thing I’ve seen all day, between your post and the other accounts. I used to run a coffeehouse, and our no-self-respect policy was “anything for money.” I think you should just see the event as a collision between the two of you, where neither of you were able (at the time) to back up and see the other’s point of view. Who’s responsible? Who cares! Mostly, it’s just goofy and everyone should be over it by now. Maybe everybody can do better next time.
Now we just need the barista’s account to finish the Rashomon thing.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Policy? It’s about convincing a gullible public, possessing more money than brains, that a product is soooo special that there is a right way (their “policy”) and a wrong way (anything else) to pour flavored sugar into milk (correct!) OR pour flavored sugar over ice (WRONG !!!). “Ice dilutes the experience” – HAHAHAHAHAHA
July 14th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
What utter crap…I work in a coffee shop, and have for long enough to know that “rules” and “company policies” are basically optional things; you make what your customers want.
more to the point, why does it matter if the water dilutes the flavor of the espresso? if that’s how you like it, that’s how it gets made.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I think that the last thing anyone in this crowd needs is more coffee!
July 14th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
It is fucking hilarious to see people defending the practice of telling me how to drink my coffee. Yes, being a service-industry slave sucks sometimes. The traditional way to survive service work is to make friends with the good customers, because the good ones have likely been in the same situation as you.
I see nothing in this story, as told here and in the other blog, that anyone was rude or stupid *until* the coffee dude was rude and stupid. And /then/ a customer behaved (slightly) poorly and made him cry. Boo-hoo.
Let’s please put this in the correct perspective, shall we? When we show up to a coffee shop to get a beverage we are, the majority of us, not offering ourselves up to a transcendental experience. We are only engaging in the transaction enough to get to the next part of our day. So, there you are, bellied at the bar, requesting a /perfectly reasonable drink/ that /every other independent and chain coffee place makes/ and you are snapped out of your reverie (got to pick up GF; I wonder if work will call this week-end; we ought to pick up eggs and milk on the way home; gods, it’s hot, I could use an iced coffee; &etc.) and forced into a ridiculous interchange for an even more ridiculous reason.
No, they are not out of coffee. No, they have not had a power outage. They are not out of ice. They are refusing, on philosophical grounds, to make you a drink that is, with some tweaking, already on the menu. That this might be company policy is baffling enough. That anyone in the service industry would respond with anything other than an apology and an offer to work around the ridiculous policy is even more so.
I’m sorry, but this is just coffee. It is not some high art, and even coffee snobs may just want a cold cuppa because that’s the way they like it that day.
I would probably have reacted in much the same way, but I would have been much more sarcastic. What else might not be part of the pure, perfect coffee experience at this shop? The thing about being a snob, is that anyone, anywhere can out-snob you. It is a zero-sum game.
Does anyone think “educating” me on what sort of way to drink coffee is of any use, at all? Did I ask for your input on my beverage choice? I am exchanging hard-earned cash for a break in my day and a little pick-me-up. Treat me with minimal polite attention and easy small-talk and I will return the same in kind.
People, this is /hilarious/. I was hoping that the coffee dude in question was just being ironic by taking the Coffee Bar Guy stance, but it would appear not (given the uber-serious nature of the linked Flickr photoset above).
So, yes, Unintentionally funny.
Anyone who defends the notion that we must start this dialogue with the assumption that there is some sort of perfect coffee drink that must never be polluted is deluding themselves.
Hey, unless you are drinking scalding hot coffee made with fire-roasted beens collected that day, cooked in a big pot for hours, and served so there are tablespoons of grounds your intended to eat at the bottom of each cup is not being true to an original coffee ideal.
Anything else is just recent fashion and subject to change without notice as coffee-drinking culture changes. Guess what? Purity loses out to invention every single time.
There is no “pure” coffee experience. Labouring under this delusion is only going to lead to tears and recriminations. So, let’s all be adult here and just accept that a double shot of espresso over ice and a shot of cream is a beverage that is here to stay. There is nothing wrong about that. Italian espresso bars don’t mind serving this, and neither should this place.
If this causes undue pain, I suggest getting out of the coffee business, because the amount of sleep you might lose is just not worth it.
The coffee guy is wrong, the company is wrong if this is policy, and however poorly the customer acted afterwards, there was an easy way to get around the situation.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Please whatever you do don’t come to Europe. Have all the iced espressos you want in good old US of A.
Espresso over ice is just stupid.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
To start with I am a chef(period) That said when someone orders an abortion such as a well done filet, I cook it well done(I might die a little inside but I cook it), they pay my wage. The only way I would not cook said filet would be if the Customer wanted it topped with Heroin, it’s their damn steak cook it!
July 14th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Murky Coffee supposedly has some “house rules,” none of which apply to espresso nor ice:
From their site:
Q: Any ‘house rules’ at murky?
A: The only real rule right now is that you can’t sleep, or appear to be sleeping, in the shop. Other stuff is common sense stuff, like don’t wet the bed. Oh, actually, there’s one more rule, but it’s not really a rule, because it’s more about enforcing an existing rule. If you play Monopoly, you MUST know that the $500 in the middle that you get if you land on “Free Parking” is NOT a bonafide Monopoly rule. Neither is the “you have to go around the board once before you can start buying property” rule. Know your Monopoly rules. That’s the rule, buster.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Having good customer service skills is unfortunately no longer a requirement when working in customer service. The barista could have easily said “ok, here you go”, and then smiled.
Once you sell me a coffee and I ask you to put mustard in it, you better do it with a smile, despite your OPINION on how well it will taste.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I love Murky Coffee. I think I’ll head there right now and drink some espresso in your honor.
The nearest Starbucks is about five or six blocks east on Clarendon Blvd. It’s on the right a little ways after the Pottery Barn. Or, just before the Pottery Barn, you can go to the Barnes and Noble. They both sell shitty coffee.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Um, the barista was right. Iced coffee is an offense before god. Drink a cup of ice water or drink a nice espresso, but don’t bitch and moan about a poor minimum wage employee.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
That’s some seriously classy passive-agressive signage there, Murkites.
Nothing says “professional” like signs written on paper bags taped to the register, and twee reminders to not write on money.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I get why the baristas would be unhappy about doing this, as a proper espresso requires pretty exact factors, and to then dump it over ice would hurt after putting the effort in. It would be like making a perfect steak and then having a customer smother it in ketchup.
That being said – as the customer, you have every right to order what you want, and failing that, to do what you want with your order. If you like a triple espresso over ice, then you should be able to get it. What really irks me is the second barista’s comments when he handed it to you.
And then to offer you essentially a MORE watered-down version afterwards is the icing on the cake. So they won’t water down espresso, unless they’re making an Americano? Why? because it has a name?
Ridiculous store policy.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Even if they guy were being condescending, it’s not an excuse for you to swear at someone and leave silly passive-aggressive notes.
What’s the point of having manners if they evaporate the first time you don’t get your way? It’s childish behavior, comes off like you have no self control, and is far less effective than telling the manager/owner why you won’t be shopping there in future.
If the barista is a jerk, and you’re a worse jerk back, the chance of anyone correcting the barista is small — the store will focus on your behavior far more than the employee.
Seriously, the quickest way to lose credibility is to lose your cool, even if you’re totally in the right.
If you don’t like the policy or employee behavior, complain to the management about the policy/behavior. But it’s pointless to argue with staff over policy: your arguments aren’t going to trump the fact you’ve asked them to disobey their boss, and why should they risk their job for you?
It doesn’t matter how much sense a rule makes, if it’s a requirement of a person’s job, they’re going to enforce it, and probably without a lot of complaint.
An employee is going to weigh the hassle of dealing with a pissed off customer vs. a pissed off boss, and act accordingly.
If an employee is rude while following policies (or if you think the policy is dumb) then you’ve got a legitimate complaint, but it should go to the right person (owner or manager.)
July 14th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
7 shots of expresso in an hour. You have a problem too!
July 14th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Just for the record, “barista” means as much as “bullfighter.” You can put either one on your nametag, and it doesn’t matter.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
[...] on Ice is Not Okay He wanted his espresso iced, but the coffee shop wouldn’t let him. "Hey man. What you’re about to do … that’s really, really Not Okay." Also see the [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Fail for the shop. Fail for the barista. If you were doing something dangerous (spilling hot beverages on ppl) or illegal (“Room for cream? I want room for Whiskey.”) with their drink I could see the concern but you’re just drinking it. I’d have walked out. I can deal with the lack of caffeine better than that nonsense.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
People who were poorly toilet trained apparently grow up to specify how other people handle liquids.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Hilarious. We’re talking about a coffee shop treating a shot of espresso like a thirty year old scotch. Ridiculous. Beyond that, if the guy paying for it wants it, let him have it. If you’re worried about the customer not liking it then telling all his friends that your coffee sucks, then just say, “we can do that, but it will not probably not be that great because the coffee will be diluted . . .” then do what the customer wants. Don’t be a schmuck. And before people start whining about how hard it is to be in the service industry and that others don’t understand, I’ve done the job and I’ve dealt with all the crap that comes with it. But then, that’s what you get paid for.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
I’m sure none of the barristas at the Java Shack about 10 blocks away Arlington (Courthouse) wouldn’t have the unadulterated arrogance to treat you that way. I write as a long-time customer of my favorite coffee joint.
Murky is something i really want to like but can’t — for that kind of story. Never mind that Murky’s owner had to close his DC location in Capitol Hill because he “forgot” to pay the rent, “forgot” to pay his taxes (for two years!) and “forgot” to pay his other bills.
July 14th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
I can’t help but wonder if the policy is more about cost-shaving cheapskates than coffee-purism (since the iced americano is essentially the same drink plus even more water)
In my experience, an Americano costs more than the sum of its parts, and I’ve seen people (at starbucks) order a tripleshot over ice, in a large cup, then go pour half a pint of (free) milk in, and leave, enjoying their ghetto-latte. If they have a policy just to “protect the spirit of the drink”, they should suck it.
…although I once saw a kid order a “vodka and coke” at my local bar, and encouraged the bartender to kick him out…
July 14th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
I don’t know anything about coffee, but I assume you are a terrible philistine!
July 14th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I predict a quick end to Murky in this economic climate. Hey, if you walked up and told him it was for a coffee enema, it’s still your damn joe.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
If the purity of the coffee was something Murky was insistent on preserving then i would imagine they would have been better off not accepting the customers money and directing the person to someplace where they could get the product that they want.
There is a wrong way to drink coffee. There is a chemistry to preperation of food and drink and if you mess it up it will taste nasty. Regardless of whether or not someone has a fetish or psychological bent that makes them take in substandard crap we all have the same taste buds and the same priming to perceive certain compounds as toxic. A red shirt is a red shirt even if your colorblind.
There is something wrong though with a cook or a barista who feels their job is not to feed people. At the end of the day your supposed to make something that someone will enjoy, and if for you thats week old grounds sifted through a gym sock then i personally would humour you to the extent that the board of health will allow. If i dont want to do the work i wont take your money, ill just tell you where to find someone who will.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Murky has a store policy, fine.
I have a customer policy that says “coffee nazis can eat my shorts”.
My dad wants to drink wine with ice. I’ve suggested to him wine is not lemonade, but I don’t gravely imply that icing down a Chardonnay is akin to dumping antifreeze in lake tahoe.
I appreciate the barista was trying to convey there are better ways to partake in espresso. Too bad his ham-handed self-righteous approach got in the way.
I’m going in there armed with maraschino cherries and Bosco. Murky is going to need a lawyer to draft all the amendments to their lame store policy.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
So adding water prevents the ice from ruining the espresso?
???
July 14th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
@Meg
I honestly think that sums up this entire thing. It also makes those defending the douchery of the Barrista look silly for not doing their research.
If Murky is that pretentious, that egotistical, that snobby that they would host a “Barrista Competition” just so they could have an excuse to congratulate themselves for thinking they are the best, I’m not surprised that one of their Barristas is a total asshat.
I’ve worked in a few retail and food stores. I’ve gone from Pizza/Subs to Dunkin Donuts to clothing stores. I was a frequent reader of CustomersSuck.com. And yet even *I*, who will usually side with the most-likely-frequently-abused employee thinks that this was simply a case of an employee being an asshole.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
As a barista for more than a decade, I understand the reluctance to pour espresso over ice. That being said, condescending assholism is unacceptable no matter what people think. Telling someone their chosen way of drinking coffee is not cool is elitist and unacceptable. I agree with the chef above. Suck it up, make the drink, bitch about their bad taste in your head. People who pity the poor wageslave need to take their heads out of their ass. Most of us have been there, and know it’s not the best job. But telling a customer you “can’t” make the drink they want? Unacceptable.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Are you kidding…dude??? It’s Texas, not freakin’ Rome. It’s not like they can actually make something can can be ruined by ice.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
The hunter gatherer and the 5 Easy Pieces references are wonderful. It’s true, we still are primitives! You’ve made my day, thanks.
I love coffee and like it strong. If it is truly a good cup, then it will taste wonderful at any temperature. Murky needs to change their sign to “The Customer Is Always Right” and live for service.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
If you don’t want rude customers … Get out of the service industry. It’s inevitable you will recieve them.
You’re serving someone, everyone likes it differently. Me, i don’t want to look at you, or talk to you while you make my coffee, I just want to get in and get out. I’ve been looked at by coffee girls like i’m being a dick before for not wanting to make small chat over the register.
You’re there to take the customers money, and provide a product or service. I don’t want you to be dispensing advice. Only smiles. There are people who do get paid for that sort of thing.
to astom: if i ask for my steak served with ketchup, i better get my steak served with ketchup. or i’m sending it back, and leaving, lest it’s spit upon
July 14th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Sounds like you met the “Simon Cowell of Coffee”.
Good for you for standing up to that douchebag. But you should have just returned it saying it wasn’t cold enough.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Yup, the DC metro area is full of assholes all the way around, on both sides of the counter, on the streets, and in the apartments.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
I own 6 coffee shops, and if I heard an employee say something like that to the customer, they wouldn’t be working for me anymore. Yes, a Barista should take pride in their work, but as has been mentioned before, the customer is (almost) always right. The Barista being pretentious doesn’t help anyone enjoy the experience, just makes the customers not want to come back.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
well played sir.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Bloody brilliant! Thank you! Thank you! For giving me a good laugh today. I have been on both sides of that counter, and the barista should have LET IT GO after stating the policy – given you your order and said something snarky under his breath after you were out of ear shot like the sane people do.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I got that same treatment from about 11 of every 10 people I dealt with in Arlington/Alexandria. There were two places, however, where I could take refuge from the douchbaggery: The Waffle Shop, DC’s link with its unpretentious past. Oh, and the second — Baltimore.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I blame the “barrista” culture for much of what is wrong with American culture today. Seriously. The rise of the coffee snob should be coffee freedom and not coffee Fascism. Their grandparents fought the Nazis so we could order coffee any way we wanted.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
As someone who worked in the foodservice industry in many capacities for years, some of those as a barista in an *awesome* coffee shop, I have to side with the customer on this one. Espresso should be prepared in any way the customer wants. Period. This barista did a disservice not only to this place and to indie coffeehouses everywhere by totally living up to the cliche of the snooty javaphile whose deep coffee fanboy knowledge trumps the customer’s personal tastes.
This place obviously doesn’t need your business, nor the business of anyone else not offended by the soul-sucking combo of coffee snobbery and bad social skills.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I had to go back and read this twice. 3 shots on ice = no good, 4 shots over water and ice = good. What the eff am I not getting here? …Anyway, they make this drink at a spot in Brooklyn, called the Franklin Soda (the drink’s called that, not the spot). It’s carbonated water or seltzer with espresso on ice. Not sure of the exact proportions. It’s well good.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
This is a lose-lose situation, with far more stress than was warranted. It _IS_ essentially “just a cup of coffee”, isn’t it?
It’s a good example of what happens when a store considers it’s product as “art” instead of product. Both pretentious and stupid.
It would have been better to look the “barista” in the eye and say “ok, I’ll go elsewhere. Too bad you lost this sale, isn’t it?”
Then email store management, tell them you walked out on an order, and _why_.
If they don’t believe “the customer is always right”, they don’t need your money.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
yes, this “barista” culture is rampant in america. i can’t go anywhere and not see a barista giving some random person an attitude!
this is not coffee snobbery, he was enfocing store policy!
this guy expects service industry people to give him a reach around. trust me, murky will not be hurting if this douche nozzle never goes there again.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Hey all you coffee-snobs: nobody gives a crap about your ridiculous coffee culture. This is exactly why Starbucks has crushed the small independent coffee shops – because no customer is ever going to return to a business that feels they have the right to condescend to and “educate” their paying customers about something as irrelevant as bean-water. No matter how perfectly it’s made it’s all just going to end up in somebody’s toilet at the end of the day anyway.
What is it about these niche businesses that attracts these socially-retarded Comic-Book-Guy type personalities? We avoided you in high school because you were creepy as hell and we certainly aren’t going put up with being lectured to by you about your insane coffee-serving policies.
Way to destroy Murky’s future as a successful business Barista-Douche.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Shame you had a bad experience. From my point of view I respect Murky for trying to offer drinks they feel they can stand behind and are proud to serve. Most places serving coffee simply don’t care, and most coffee served (in the US and beyond) is really pretty terrible. I also stand behind a policy of not doing drinks that are off the menu. If I go eat somewhere I don’t want to wander into the kitchen and tell the chef exactly what to make me, moreso if it is something the chef isn’t happy serving.
The anti-snobbery against coffee is why coffee remains so bad, why consumption in many countries is relatively low and why coffee will continue to be pretty awful in all but a handful of places. I can’t understand why it is shameful to want better, expect better or why coffee can’t be more than just bitter caffeinated dish water.
That said if you are in a position where you are doing something different to the market (like Murky) then incidents like this are likely to happen and how you deal with them is key. As frustrating as it is when someone doesn’t get what you are trying to do, you still need to deal with in a way that the customer doesn’t feel an ass or resentful and perhaps may appreciate what you are doing on future visits.
Being proud of what you do isn’t being pretentious. Making good coffee isn’t elitist, pompous or snobby. If quality didn’t matter then the places that do a great job wouldn’t be as successful as they are.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Murky does make the best espresso in Arlington, but yes sadly it’s employees lack common courtesy. Java Shack and Rappahannock are decent nearby alternatives though..and down in old town is Misha’s.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
seriously, start going to starbucks. it was invented for people like you. they will even smile at you and pour it over ice for you. leave this place for people like me, who are serious about espresso.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
There is a disturbing trend in the world that companies own their products and can dictate how you interact with those products even after you purchase, and thus own that product. These barristas are no different then the arrogant dicks from the RIAA or MPAA. You were lucky they didn’t demand you void the product from an orafice before leaving the premise.
July 14th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
HHH: Since the store policy is coffee snobbery, then I guess the barista was in the clear.
I also didn’t realize that ordering a drink the way you wanted it was the equivalent of a reach-around. I’ll definitely use that consumer privlidge!
July 14th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
If they charge, it’s a business:
The Customer Is Always Right
July 14th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Photoshop: helping the axis of evil appear MORE evil since 1990
July 14th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Apologies in advance if I’ve missed this. I haven’t read all of the comments.
I think we might harken back to the issue of the “ghetto latte”.
While not doubting anyone’s dedication to quality, perhaps most of these “no ice” polices stem from this problem. (?)
July 14th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Heh, good story.
One thing: *Seven* shots of espresso in the span of an hour?? Holy shit, switch to a mojito or xanax or something dude!
July 14th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I’m with you on the frustration.
I’ve definitely gotten a few odd looks as a result of ordering iced espresso drinks (I greatly prefer them that way). I’ve once or twice seen such snobbery (though not at the level you did), although it’s more common that places that can’t do it simply don’t have ice machines or ice.
The couple of times that baristas refused on principle, I just voted with my feet and left. (I’ve had one or two similar experiences with trying to substitute things on menus.) They can have whatever policy they want, and I can take my business where I want.
I’m not with you on the tip part, though.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
The polyphasic colloidal foam (crema) on top of espresso is important, and does not hold up to icing. Big F-ing deal; it also doesn’t hold up to simple stirring or a few minutes of time. Mixing espresso with anything simply makes it a different drink. Baristas might helpfully explain this to customers and recommend against it, and serve it with the ice on the side to avoid doing the dirty deed themselves. Or, they can act like pretentious jerks with cramping sphincters, leave everyone frustrated and annoyed, and loose customers. It’s a simple choice, but some people will never learn. Your commented tip seems perfectly appropriate.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Granted that I haven’t read through all the responses here, and I agree that a funny story can get blown all out of proportion out here in the digitalaether. But for my unwanted two cents, I think that I can explain what happened and it doesn’t have anything to do with coffee integrity.
There has been an increase in what is called the poor man’s latte’ or the ‘ghetto latte’ where the customer orders an espresso over ice then fills the rest of the cup with the free half&half provided by the establishment. It was the last comment that the barista made, “I know what you’re about to do and it’s not okay,” that tells me he believed you were about to make such a beverage. You can imagine that this practice is poorly seen from the indy business point of view.
One coffee shop we have in Tacoma, WA has gone so far as to put a sign over the 1/2&1/2 station indicating that ‘Breve Thieves’ are not welcome and that ‘you know who you are’.
I think the fact that you came back to the counter and ordered a second drink smoothed over the whole misunderstanding and was the perfect gesture on your part.
The phenomena of the ‘poor man’s latte’ provides and interesting move into a general discussion around conspicuous consumption on the cheap. The ‘ghetto latter’ is one such expression of this, with the ultimate being to fake an entire vacation with a sun booth tan and photoshopped pictures. The whole thing can get pretty weird in the post-consumer age where definitions of status and class structure have become so murky that people aren’t even aware of what class they belong to or how their behavior continues to subtly recreate class differences.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Hmm this seems to happen quite a lot. Take Ben n Jerry ice cream franchises for instance.
When you order a Chocolate milkshake they make it with 1 Scoop of vanilla.
When I stop them ( every freaking time ) and say . No Vanilla thank you. I get the look followed by “its how we make it”. When you explain that what you wanted was Chocolate not Chocolate and Vanilla they get all upset and wierd. Like your being a Pain in the Ass.
Ive had them refuse to serve me or just be damned rude.
I saw amen and to right for the customer being allowed to buy it there way.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
the dollar bill is shopped. i dont believe a word of this because of that fact. nice short story though.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
What is it about these niche businesses that attracts these socially-retarded Troy-McClurey type personalities? We avoided you in high school because you used to beat us up and we certainly aren’t going to forget and not spit in your coffee
July 14th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I’m with Andrew – if I were this bozo’s boss, he’d be looking for a new job. It’s too hard (and expensive) to get customers into a business in the first place to allow some ill-mannered oaf to run them off.
I think Jeff was remarkably restrained under the circumstances, particularly leaving his love note on an actual dollar – I’d have left them a napkin bearing the same message instead.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I don’t understand… the only difference between 3 shots on ice and the 4 shot iced americano was 1 shot… Was exactly is the policy that you were breaking? I couldn’t find anything on their website, just that “we’re happy to serve you anything that we offer.”
July 14th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Am I the only one who thinks the word “barista” is annoying?
July 14th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I’ve no doubt the baristas, in their infinite wisdom, know what’s best for us miserable and unworthy masses. But everyone likes something different. My grandpa always put salt in his beer. I think it’s weird and gross, but it would have been stupid for me to become morally outraged at his refusal to enjoy his beverage in the “right” way.
I would never again patronize a business that got all snooty with me about the way that I happen to like their products served.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Oh, and as for the “ghetto latte” defense, accusing a customer of theft before s/he does anything to justify the accusation is even worse than trying to tell the customer how to drink his/her coffee.
July 14th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
i know how you feel.. but at the same time, im a now former barista from an independent cafe (working as a chef these days)and i at least know part of working in hospitality means you’ve gotta be hospitable. treating people like jerks means they wouldnt ever come back.. so where does that leave you? an artist without and audience. yeah good one.
good work for cracking the shits..
July 14th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Dude- keep rocking.
Reminds me of the looks I get when I ask the sausage trucks at carnivals for an Italian sausage with no peppers, no onions.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
I have also worked in a coffeeshop with uber-attitude. However, *if* it was in our power to make the drink, we would. Perhaps with a quick look like they were crazy…but we made it.
We didn’t do flavored drinks (aside from mocha), the owner didn’t stock syrup. We didn’t blend drinks – and we didn’t keep the equipment. We pointed people the way to coffee shops that did. We did *not* tell them they way they choose to drink coffee ‘was Not Okay’ as though it were an offense against God. Coffee tastes are an *opinion*, just like any any other kind of taste.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Murky. Huh. They opened a branch near Eastern Market in DC, but DC government seized the business from them. Seems their OTHER store policy is to collect the DC sales tax, then forget to submit it to the DC treasury. BTW, the best cold coffee drink is a coffee slush made by Cafe D’Orio in Rome–a cookie sheet of espresso, raked with a fork from time to time as it freezes. Yummy. I tried to talk the Murky in DC into trying it, but they turned their nose up at that innovation, too.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
What saddens me is that one of the best lines I’ve ever read on the web will get lost in all the hullabaloo over this post:
“The whole world turned brown and chunky for a second. Flecks of corn floated past my pupils, and it took me a second to blink it all away.”
Flecks of corn floating past my pupils.
I will never forget this line.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
A dick?! Are you kidding me?! if they tried that on me I would have the same reaction. I get the exact same drink at Starbucks and Peets all the time. If they tried that “quality control” I’d go apeshit. At least at Peets and Starbucks I know what I’m getting. that’s one reason I don’t like local coffee establishments. Give a guy an espresso machine and he thinks he’s a fucking gourmet! Thanks for posting this. I’m going to send it around to other people who are sympathetic iced espresso drinkers. Bravo, bravo!
July 14th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
The blogger *admits” he acted like an asshole. But I bet the barista doesn’t admit that he was being a pretentious, overbearing ass. It’s one thing to recommend a different drink; it’s another to tell the customer that’s “not cool” — as if the guy had made a racist remark or tortured a kitten.
And you’ll have to explain to me how diluting espresso over ice is different from diluting it with water in an Americano.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
the “shop” job now on Murky’s bulletin board. Still sure it’s fake?
http://flickr.com/photos/tbridge/2667261495/
July 14th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Salt in beer recharges the head a bit. Very Wisconsin technique.
Also, don’t be in the service business if you’re not going to serve people. I mean, “it’s not okay”. What?!! He interjected the unnecessary palaver and you simply volleyed it back. If the proper espresso rules were not posted anywhere, I think you’re safe from litigation.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
About a year ago, I lived in Ballston and commuted on the Orange Line every morning down Court House to work at an unbelievably unfulfilling job.
As I brought my lunch to work and typically ate it at my desk, I had two choices of places to take my hour lunch break: Java Shack or Murky.
Murky was staffed by a large group of disaffected young people and had a cute but pisspoor way of making tea: putting loose tea into paper bags (basically DIY teabags). Great in theory, but there’s a reason loose tea is left in whole leaves and the contents of a lipton packet is powder.
Java Shack never had any more than one person working, frequently with the owner, Dale, hanging out. Dale, like everyone else who worked there, knew my name, knew what I did, and knew what I wanted. He always was willing to chat about what he was trying to do as a business, his products, and the neighborhood generally.
Dale had his B.S. policies, but he was apologetic about them. For example: wifi costs a buck an hour. This sucks, but he pointed out that his network had so many non-customer’s using it that he had to do SOMETHING.
In the end though I always went to Murky for a place to have a shitty expensive cup of tea but then use the wifi all afternoon, and to Java Shack when I wanted to visit a community business I cared about and read a book. I’m really not surprised they were pricks to you, and you really should give Dale a visit up the street if all you care about is quality coffee served to you by non-jerks.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I own a small (perhaps medium-sized) coffeehouse. If I were aware of a situation like this at our shop, I would deliver a very stern warning to the barista. Treating a customer like that is completely unacceptable. Occasionally, we’re asked to do things that we find odd or somehow detrimental to the coffee experience. I usually just smile, let them know that their order is one that I can’t guarantee because it’s not on our menu, and then make it for them. In other words, I wouldn’t ‘stand behind’ an espresso over ice, but there’s no accounting for taste, and I don’t feel like telling people that they’re wrong for enjoying what they enjoy.
We do educate our customers though, but we don’t push it. It happens over time, like the administrative assistant who used to order flavored mochas, then flavored lattes, then lattes, then espresso macchiatos, and now double espressos. Telling a customer that drinking espresso the way they drink espresso “Is not cool,” is not an effective way to teach anything.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I went to Murky once years ago and asked for a skim mocha, no whip, and I got the exact same tone of voice. “We never put whipped cream in our drinks,” but the “never” in his sentence was clearly italicized. I was so shocked by his attitude that I didn’t even question him, but apparently it must ruin the espresso and milk and chocolate sauce.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Screw you all trying to defend the coffee shop and its integrity. Espresso over ice is no different than an Americano but that was acceptable there. Piss off you pretentious pricks.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Dude i’m with them, if you want to drink shit coffee i’m sure there was a starbucks near by.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
geez… I think everyone needs to switch to decaf
July 14th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
dude, seriously. main rule of retail: give the customer what they want. leave your elitist attitudes at the door. i’m reminded of that clip in the movie “high fidelity” when barry (jack black) blasts a customer for liking a certain song.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Here from BB.
So, coffee snobs, what are we peons SUPPOSED to drink in post-global warming areas (I’m in HI) where the temperature in the summer is somewhere between ‘Surface of Mercury’ and ‘Core of the Sun’?
July 14th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Hear Hear!
My brothers and I( one of them being Melvillian) are all iced coffee drinkers.
I, as a past manager/supervisor at Starbucks and your local hip coffee joint, think this type of assinine ‘above it all’ behavior is ridiculous.
Sure, you were enraged, but it was hilarious!
And that barista failed to learn a much needed lesson in modesty and customer churn.
July 14th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
The blogger in somepart was a asshole and admits to it.
what if you have your cash. and lets say you want your drink. You use your cash for your drink.
diluting espresso with ice is bad? that may be so but there a simple fact, they paying for it with their money. And who drinks it. they will.
Now if was the case they couldnt do it as they dont have equipment or goods in a way. then all fair simply cant do it.
state “Hey man. What you’re about to do … that’s really, really Not Okay.” makes it sound like they did a number 1 into the cup and drank it.
mean yes u can say that puting ice in the coffee is like doing number 1 into it.
But the fact that doing a number 1 in public place is rude i guess thats not okay
all in all…
this might of been blown up arguement but it might be somthign which touches us cus alot of us dont have it our way or have to face people being assholes or snobs. personally dont like the whole snob’s or poor customer service.
and to top it all off….
“LOL”
July 14th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
PS: Murky does attract snobbish employees, true….but their coffee *does* taste better than anyone else’s. How else do you think they stay in business, with the heavy does of ‘tude that comes with each drink?
A few notes above here, I mentioned a really good coffee slushy drink, but got the name of the proprietor wrong. Here it is:
http://www.reallyrome.com/blog/2007/06/11/coffee-slushies-at-tazza-doro/
And here’s the recipe for the drink they call granita di caffe:
http://divinacucina.blogspot.com/2005/08/granita-di-caffe.html
Gustare!
July 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
The barista handled the situation badly but he was correct from a quality point of view. Espresso poured directly over ice kills the crema instantly. The crema is where the best flavors in the espresso reside. What tastes best is to temper the espresso in some cool water before adding ice. It will allow the crema and the flavors to mix throughout the drink. The customer needed to be educated, not schooled. He was much more satisfied with the second beverage made properly. I always prepare iced drinks with the ice being the FINAL ingredient to preserve the flavor profile.
Respect your barista, and you will enjoy your coffee all the more.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
I think many people here are missing the point.
He didn’t ask the barista to ask his freaking espresso.
He asked for an espresso. He asked for a cup of ice. The barista’s job ended there.
If he should want to pour HIS espresso over HIS ice, whatever. So much drama over nothing.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
[...] in Murky Coffee (which is just down the street from me), the barista played to stereotype, and he wrote about it. This other guy overheard the conversation between the first guy and the barista, and wrote about [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
The customer, who pays the bills, is always right. He may be wrong-headed, and may be a douchebag, and you may try to convince him that he is wrong, but in the end you should take care of the guy who pays the bills.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
i used to own a small cafe, and we featured exactly that drink on our menu. it was invented by a regular customer, who named it the “ugly americano.” after september 11th, the same customer re-named it the “gravitron.” it is still my absolute favorite summer drink, huge cup of ice, three perfect shots poured over, and a splash of milk, cream, or soy milk. yummmm.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
hey murky … be smart, not stuck-up … serve COFFEE ICE COFFEE … you’ll figure it out.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
My standard coffee drink is a modification of one of the specialties at a local shop. The baristas start making it when I walk through the door, serve it with a smile, and the owner seems happy to see a repeat customer. I’d have left Murky after the first snide remark.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
“This is exactly why Starbucks has crushed the small independent coffee shops – because no customer is ever going to return to a business that feels they have the right to condescend…”
Apparently you’ve never heard a Starbucks barrista stubbornly refuse to understand the words “small”, “medium”, and “large”.
July 14th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
[...] Jeff Simmermon tried to order an espresso over ice at a D.C. cafe: I just ordered my usual summertime pick-me-up: a triple shot of espresso dumped over ice. And the guy at the counter looked me in the eye with a straight face and said “I’m sorry, we can’t serve iced espresso here. It’s against our policy.” [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
So lemme get this straight….If you buy expresso and put it over ice it’ll be watered down too much and “it’s really not OK,” but if you buy an Americano, which is expresso in a cup filled water it’s fine?
Gotcha.
I wouldn’t be back.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
You got my support!
You handled the scene perfectly, way to be.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Hey you’re in the right, and it’s a funny story…I liked your update about the whole thing blowing up after boing boing linked to it…they linked to my blog when I had a customer service issue too (not over coffee, but believe it or not, “terrorism…”)
July 14th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/05/14/taking-pictures-on-l.html
July 14th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
The dude works in a shop, it’s not really his place to tell the customers what they should or shouldn’t be doing. He’s not molesting children.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
No Espresso For You!!!
NEXT!!!!!!!
July 14th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
PS.
7 shots of espresso in an hour is NOT GOOD FOR YOU
July 14th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I have worked on service related industries for 15+ years now and here’s my take:
The barista took his job and what he was preparing and serving you seriously. Do you take your job seriously? What if someone gave you attitude because they could for you following the rules and taking pride in whatever you happen to do for a living that pays so well? Oh that’s right, this guy just serves you coffee and doesn’t deserve a bit of your respect. I do agree that he make have taken it to a somewhat laughable extreme, but I’d take that over some guy not giving a shit at all.
You’re right, you’re coming off as a dick, and I’m happy you concede that. Next time, just remember that you get more flies with honey, capieche?
And I love that we’re bitching about espressos and baristas, and ice and who is being pretentious, God Bless America!!
July 14th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
An excellent cafe I worked at made iced coffee and espresso in the following way:
1. make coffee twice as strong
2. pour directly over ice
3. ice melts into coffee delivering the same strength as if it were hot.
But really, yeah. The hell with them.
July 14th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Barista was a dick, and you were a dick back. This kind of bullshit is why the terrorists hate you.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I have to say that I agree with you 100%. I personally cannot stand some douchebag condescending barista trying to dictate what I Should and Shouldn’t Do. I cannot believe that some commenters here are trying to insinuate that you should have “followed their policy”. Life is too bloody short to capitulate to others’ bullshit demands, or to drink coffee you don’t like. Carpe diem, is what I say, and discard others’ bullshit.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
[...] Murky Coffee, Arlington: Hold That Espresso Between Your Knees (And I Am Not Lying) [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I can only dream that I will one day have an experience that will lead to a blog post as FUCKING BRILLIANT as this one. (and all the others.)
This is America, at its finest.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
[...] http://www.andiamnotlying.com/2008/murky… [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
It’s your coffee, you can dunk bees in it and drink it through your nose with a colourful bendy straw if that’s the way you like it. Fuck them!
July 14th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
In the grand scheme of things, it seems we have a hopped-up counter person (yeah, “barista,” whatever) getting pretentious over pouring – or even allowing the customer to pour – some coffee over ice. Even if Jeff was a dick to the guy, it was earned and justified.
It’s coffee. Shut the hell up and make it.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
[...] This is too funny not to share… [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
[...] He wanted his espresso iced, but the coffee shop wouldn’t let him. "Hey man. What you’re about to do … that’s really, really Not Okay." Also see the tip he left. [...]
July 14th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
@wonderfulwriting
And you are damn right. I fully intend to steal that line.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Instead of writing your comment on the tip, you should have written it on the bathroom walls…with diarrhea.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
I think everyone should go to Murky and order a triple espresso with a cup of ice. Then, after you pour the espresso over the ice and hurt their feelings, pull a can of Coke out of your pocket and dump that in too.
I love good coffee, but I hate snobs.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
How about asking “how do I get what I want” and “how does the barrista get what he wants”?
Solve that and everyone is happy, though I’m not sure why.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
leave this place for people like me, who are serious about espresso.
———
If you are “serious about espresso” then I heartily suggest you “get a life.” bwa-ha-ha! “serious about espresso.”
you can’t make that sh*t up.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Well, I was willing to give the store the benefit of the doubt, but when i went to their website using their store name dot com, I was surprised to see this as the most recent post. (I paste it here in case they decide, on my advice, that it was kind of WILDLY unprofessional and take it down)
———————-
from Nick
Open Letter to Jeff Simmermon
Dear Jeff Simmermon,
So as you’ve seen, there’s a little blog-thing going around today on BoingBoing and Metafilter about some sort of incident at the shop this past weekend.
(Original blog post here. Also blogged here and here.)
I suppose some sort of two-cents is warranted here.
Okay, we don’t do espresso over ice. Why? Number one, because we don’t do it. Number two, because we don’t do it. Mostly for quality reasons. Also, because more than half the time, it’s abused (Google “ghetto latte”).
We have some policies at murky coffee. No sleeping in the shop. If you’re asleep, you’ll be tapped on the shoulder and asked not to sleep in the shop. We’ve had to ban a customer because of his chronic napping.
No modifications to the Classic Cappuccino. No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it). No espresso in a to-go cup. No espresso over ice. These are our policies. We have our reasons, and we’re happy to share them.
To others reading this I will say that if you don’t like the policies, I respectfully recommend that you find some other place that will give you what you want, or select something that we can offer you. David, the barista in question, is respectful, passionate, and cares about making good coffee, and he cares about murky’s policies. Nobody’s perfect, and maybe David could have chosen different words or a slightly different tact in responding to Jeff Simmermon’s request. But that’s life. At murky, we treat people with common courtesy, and expect the same from our customers. Not in response or in turn, but because that’s how people are supposed to treat each other. We’re not supposed to go through life looking for reasons to get pissed off. Life’s too short for that sort of thing.
To Mr. Simmermon, you overplayed your hand with your vulgar tip-schtick. While I certainly won’t bemoan you your right to free-speech, I have to respond to you in your own dialect: Fuck you, Jeff Simmermon. Considering your public threat of arson, you’ll understand when I say that if you ever show your face at my shop, I’ll punch you in your dick.
Respectfully,
Nick
Owner, murky coffee
————-
wow…
Respectfully?! really?
Nice way to spin something that is hurting your public image. You could do better with Ari Gold from Entourage.
(Love the show JP and crew.)
July 14th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
It’s fine if the store has a policy to not pour their coffee over ice. Perfectly fine. It’s their store and they can do what they want, but there is no call for a snotty barista to try to bitch at a customer for finding a loophole.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Wow. Just wow. I managed a coffee shop for 2 years and our espresso was our biggest point of pride. I know exactly how to pull a shot, how long it will stay good, and how to make foam so smooth it leaves a PERFECT crema ring. Coffee is my LIFE.
That said, I think you were totally justified. The kid behind the counter was being deliberately obtuse. On many occasions someone would come to our shop and ask for something we didn’t offer, not ONE time did I just say “No”, my staff would always suggest an alternative to the customer.
I appreciate how very important coffee shop kids are, because well, how would the rest of us know how worthless and uncool we were without them judging us? But seriously, while adding the espresso directly to ice does shock the coffee and makes it bitter, how different is an Iced Americano from an Iced Espresso? I can only assume that he was either too stupid to understand this, or (far more likely) too full of his own nearly over-whelming coolness to waste any time on a reasonable level of customer service.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
sure, i’m 99% sure the barista was being a jerk, but really, just because these people work at a coffee shop doesn’t mean they’re there to bend to our every whim. they serve what’s on the menu, get it? the guy did his job, badly (cause he was rude) but he did it. he isn’t a jerk because he refused your drink-he’s simply maintaining his autonomy by following his and the store’s guidelines.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Wow. Just Plain Wow.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Funny thing: Starbuck’s recipe for iced coffee is three shots of espresso poured over ice.
Now, speaking as a former barrista who had a huge attitude problem, I got all sorts of insane requests and I could be a serious dick about it if I wasn’t properly caffeinated. That said, if it was possible to make the customer’s drink, I made it. Iced espresso as opposed to iced coffee? Sure. A large “laht”, “laytey”, “layte” “lottee” or any of the hundred other mispronunciations I heard? Sure. A “coffee lottey mochachino”? Coming right up. I even made someone a double espresso with cinnamon, nutmeg and a shot of amaretto syrup. So sure I was that the customer didn’t know what he was ordering that I offered a refund if he didn’t like it. He did, which shows what I know.
Despite my lousy attitude and general snobbishness about coffee (and music and movies and pasta and…you get the point), if a customer ordered it, I made it. The only time I ever refused to make someone what they ordered was because I regarded it as impossible. The customer wanted a large iced cappuccino. This would be a shot of espresso topped with foamed milk and poured over ice. It can’t be done; the milk and espresso would blend when the ice was poured in and the ice would dilute the espresso so you’d get a weak watery iced latte. In this specific instance the issue turned out to be terminology. The customer actually wanted an iced mocha, which I happily provided.
Bottom line: Murky Coffee is staffed by dicks.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
What gets me is that the barista, with his fumbled “not OK” admonishment delivered like a true pussy, is so disgustingly smug as to pass judgment on a casual customer. His policy is so byzantine and punitive as to be called a fringe cultural custom, like how Pashtun Afghans inhale their children’s penises as a display of love (State v. Kargar). Murky needs to give Lonely Planet time to update its D.C. guidebooks.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Enthusiast:
I do believe you’ve failed to recognize the sarcasm, when you state that “he was much more satisfied with the second beverage made properly”.
I do find coffee snobbery amusing. True super-tasters find the stuff too bitter to be enjoyable at all, and if you’re not a super-taster, all of your wankery about the “delicate flavors” is just that — wankery. Claiming that mixing it with water before pouring it over ice makes it taste better than just pouring it over ice, and getting affronted by the latter? Super-wankery.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I think that the strangest thing about this whole encounter is not the encounter itself, but the fact that the internet enabled the both of you to continue what would have ended without it.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Heres the bottom line: its a funny damn rant.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
What if the barista had been as eloquent as Rube in Dead Like Me?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GYCTVlxVx0I
July 14th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Two posts before the “open letter:”
[quote]
THURSDAY, MARCH 20, 2008
from Nick
murky coffee capitol hill
It is with great sadness, regret, and shame that I report that murky coffee capitol hill will not reopen.
The above article in today’s Metro section of the Washington Post sums up our situation fairly well: due to my own financial mismanagement, and the DC Office of Tax and Revenue’s inability to revise their figures to the actual liability in time to be able to re-open the shop, the shop has been shut down and will not reopen.
[/quote]
At least he knows he can’t manage a coffee shop. I expect the other one will close down, too, before long.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Americans have lived being in the “customer is always right” position for a long time and created a nation of whining babies when it comes to change or anything making the “i want it my way… now” phenomenon. When someone is throttled an experience at a private establishment it is because that establishment has a code of how things are perceived as quality then it is their right. Go to a corporate shop to be pampered by your wishes and buy stock in Halliburton so things stay the same.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Jeff – I’m with you. Baristas (and bartenders, as well) need to fucking get over themselves.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Funny how a comment storm refuses to be derailed. Please read the earlier entry by habeascorpus posted on July 14th, 2008 at 2:13 pm for the best analysis of what happened at the coffee shop.
Most of the outrage evaporates if you accept that the barista thought Jeff was going to ‘upgrade’ his drink on the sly at the condiment bar. Using that misconception as a basis, the barista’s behavior seems understandable. Jeff, OTOH, has no such larceny planned, and takes it as a whole different insult. Also understandable.
I come down pro-Jeff. If an equivalent barista-mediated upgrade is so much more expensive that the shop chooses to hound suspected DIYers, then their pricing structure is way distorted.
And now we’ll need a bigger can for all the worms we’ve let loose.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Only in America can a rant about coffee gain this much attention and response. If this had been a Star Bucks it would already be on primetime news.
I say “right on” to customer rights.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Arrogant, stuck up, snobby thinking they know everything customers need to get over themselves. Most quality minded baristas and independant shop owners consider themselves artists. Yet who would even dare think about telling an artist what or how they should ‘do their art’? People would do well to remember that how they are responded to has a HUGE part to play with how they act towards the person in the first place.
It’s called the “Sevice” industry and NOT the ‘slave’ industry. Just because a person is paying another for goods/services does not give the right (which SO many seem to feel) to act with a complete lack of respect for their fellow human or even some common decency.
Respect the artistry of whomever you purchase things from, or learn how to make it yourself so you can continue feeling self-righteous in making it your own way.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Jeff’s story doesn’t surprise me at all. In fact, when I get good service at a cafe or restaurant in the DC metro area, THAT shocks me. I’ve never lived anywhere where customers are treated so badly. I love the $5 hot chocolate, but I’m happy to eschew Murky permanently if this is what passes for “good service” with the owner.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
@dv: I’m sensing a new Improv Everywhere stunt!
July 14th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
seems nick is the dick in this case…perhaps if he had a list of espresso rules posted outside his establishment his pristine empire would not be soiled with the wants of the common folk.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
“Your peso, your say-so.”
Even the Renaissance masters had to shill their craft to create gawdy eyesores for the Florentine elite. Despite their previously-mentioned awards, I doubt Murkies is the Raphael of coffeehouses.
That being said…
I guess “Nick” over at Murkies believes that being condescending to his customers is in the best interests of his business. Perhaps the loss in revenue from guys like Jeff will be offset by coffee purists attracted to his policies. I personally think he’s wrong, but that’s Nick’s perogative.
It’s also Jeff’s perogative to blog about his experience. His word has clearly gotten out and it may have a dileterious (sp?) effect on Murkies revenue. Nick better hope there’s a whole lot’a coffee snobs out there to offset that loss. Hey, maybe there are, but I wouldn’t count on it.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
I am dumbstruck and awed by Nick. He did it, he said what so many service people are to scared to say. And for once, an owner stood behind their employee. I’d thought I’d never see the day. *checks outside for winged pigs ice-skating*
I must come out and also say Fuck You to the Great Entitled Ignorant Consumer that does shit like this, and then claims to have a charmed life. Take your $$ somewhere else, otherwise we’ll punch you in the dick, thank you very much. Or, ask a question nicely for once, mmkay??!??
In the mean time, I am much too afraid to show that kind of bravado, and will instead to try continue to work on my service memoirs with a working title “How To Talk Nice To Retarded Assholes to Get What You Want” or “So, You Think You Could Do A Better Job?”.
I think everyone in this country should be required to wait tables for 3 months before than can bitch about “service” or have any other kind of job. No one, and I mean NO ONE has a right to treat anyone servering you in any capacity, has the right to use that opportunity to disrespect another human being just because they are taking your stupid little order. Ever hear of the Golden Rule?
As previously mentioned, Jeff, you’re a dick, and karma is a bitch. Nick, I love you, let’s get married.
July 14th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
too much coffee, man
July 14th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
the guy wanted some expresso with ice. the only people that could possibly care about this being bad or wrong have their heads so far stuck up their ass it’s no wonder they can find all these intense flavours and sensations from their “pure, unadulterated expresso”.
People then applaud the fact that it’s the stores policy and they should be able to serve or not serve the coffee in whatever way they choose, and any customer asking for a deviation is meddling in their “art”. How can you then wonder that so many franchise chains are ripping across the world a killing mom and pop shops with this kind of attitude. You’re paying for ownership of something you can do whatever the fuck you want to it. Especially for a simple cup of joe.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
@ Bitter — just to clarify here … I’ve had more shit jobs dealing with the public than your tiny mind can imagine. I’ve washed dishes, waited tables, been a busboy, a cook, packed plastic cutlery for airline food. I’ve played a naughty little gingerbread boy in a children’s play that toured DC, MD, and VA doing three plays a day.
I’ve done my time in the restaurant business, the telemarketing business, the furniture removal business and you know, I wasn’t always awesome to people. And you know what happened every time I got caught at it? My boss opened up the Ark of the freaking Covenant on my surly ass. And sometimes I got fired. I know what it’s like working with the public. And let me tell you something — this isn’t nearly as bad as it gets, but it was way worse than it needed to be.
The rest of you guys … I really appreciate your comments on all sides of the issue. But I’ve got to shut this thing down before somebody gets hurt. Nick at Murky Coffee’s done a good job on himself already, and I think it’s time for us all to just breathe deep, get some sleep, and dream of a world where this is our biggest problem.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
initially, i was on your side of the fence. it’s your coffee, if you want vinegar and jalapenos in it, be my guest.
then i remembered that you’re in AMERICA… where people get to sue McDonalds because the coffee was too hot. the barista needed to cover his bases to make sure that some random customer won’t complain that his iced expresso didn’t taste any good.
if the barista was rude or condescending, then i would concede that you have every right to rant. unfortunately, it’s a case of he-said, she-said and without an impartial withness, i don’t care to judge.
but if anyone here harbors the illusion that the customer is always right, i’d have to direct yor attention to this catastrophe:
http://www.chemsetcomics.com/vulture-gulch-other-stories/other-stories/how-i-lost-my-s-at-the-apple-store/
July 14th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Wow, Jeff! You’re famous!
I never really got into Murky even though I lived at Eastern Market (different store I know, but still). Their store was filthy. I’m surprised the health department didn’t get them before the tax man did.
Good for you calling them out on their “fuck customer service” attitude.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
“holy ground is the bedrock of fascism”
christ people, it’s just espresso. getting all prissy about it just makes you look asinine. I hope a parade of people waltz through there this week asking for triple espressos and a cup of ice, and i hope the help is on their best twee panties-bunched behavior, and everybody has a good time. Hey Nick, you’re thoroughly pathetic, and take yourself WAY too seriously. try the decaf, hmmm?
July 14th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
You know I have to say companies have there polices. period. They don’t ask you to make these policies up for them but they have their reasons and expect everyone to abide by them. If you don’t like the company policy that is posted for customer viewing (i.e. in front of the register)…..go somewhere else….or open your own store with your own policies. They are all made for a reason that doesn’t mean you have to grasp it but it is the policy even if you can’t fathom the idea of why. Someone did their job and you got mad. What if he came to your job and asked you to break a rule that he thought was stupid. A job is a job, a policy is just that, you don’t follow policy you don’t have job. Supply and demand, even if you as a customer can not understand that. That’s not the employee’s fault or the employee’s policy. Just a guy doing his job. Then that guy that is just wanting to go to work to pay bills or eat has to put up with some super-ego maniac like you. You as an individual who didn’t have to act out could’ve took a moment to think….”hmmm well that doesn’t make sense to me, but this guy is just doing his job.” and purchase some other item to your likening. You have ranted as a grown man with the mentality of an infant not getting his why….maybe some suppress mother issues…. I don’t know. However you take this I really do hope you think about how you treat someone who is just doing their job the next time you don’t get your way. Then maybe the world would work more in your favor…just a thought. Be kind to others and they will be kind to you.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
dear coffee snobs,
stfu. your arrogance is off the charts, and no one gives a damn if you can drink straight espresso shots and eat the grinds. join reality: most people don’t give a damn about quality and integrity of coffee. unless it’s actually making you convulse, i suggest you get over it.
it’s wrong that the guy gave the customer an attitude, and it’s wrong that the customer got bitchy, IMO. but don’t offer dude an americano when he’s about to make one himself, just cold.
sincerely,
person who drinks pressed coffee only
PS. the customer isn’t always right, and fuck that rule, but fuck snobs.
July 14th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Dear Nick, Owner, murky coffee,
You are a tool. Get a life you coffee-douche.
Respectfully,
Michael, former murky coffee customer
July 14th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Bravo, Jeff. Well put.
Below, I repost my response to Nick, as I don’t trust him to publish the comments that his site is asking for.
————
Seriously? That’s the best you can do, Nick?
First, you’ve lost all claim to the high ground here. You can’t possibly go with “respectfully” and whine about “common courtesy”, and then go on with “fuck you” and threats of a cock punch. Either actually be respectful or be fully an asshole.
Second, you’re displaying exactly the kind of high-handed, condescending snobbery that your barista was accused of. Before, people might have thought that somebody was having bad day, a weird anomaly. But no, you’ve made it clear that being an arrogant jerk to customers is the house style, and that it comes from the top.
Third, hiding behind mysterious “policies” is bullshit. You can either be a small, independent joint, and have personal reasons for what you do. Or you can be a large chain with policies that come from the 8th floor of some glassy building, no explanation attached. But trying to hide behind “policies” in a single store is a painfully obvious way of avoiding responsibility.
Fourth, you’re still in the wrong. Yes, your customer was a jerk. But the barista was jerky first, and obviously wasn’t “happy to share” the reasons behind being refused a reasonable request. If you can’t even be man enough to admit that you and your minions were in the wrong, even by the low standards you set for yourself in this post, then it’s no wonder you flamed out trying to run a whole second shop.
My advice: man up, say you’re sorry, and show at least a vague awareness that you’re in a customer service business. That doesn’t mean that you have to ever serve an iced espresso if it bruises your delicate sensibilities, but it does mean demonstrating the respect that, so far, is just hot air on your part.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
We’re debating whether the customer was right over at CreateDebate:
http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/Was_denying_cust_an_iced_espresso_on_principle_right
July 14th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
You know, after reading the owner’s comment – you can rest assured that they’re not going to be in business much longer. If they’re THAT worried about people making OMFG GHETTO LATTES – put the bleeding creams, milks, half-and-half, sugar, etc BEHIND THE COUNTER and have the barista add it in. Then at least they will have a job to do (i.e. making you a custom drink) instead of judge you by the coffee you order.
Bloody hell. These coffee-snobs are the type of people who probably ride recumbent bicycles. Ugh.
Good luck to you, sir, in your search for a a good cup of iced espresso. I, for one, will not be getting anything from Murky, ever.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
This represents my very favorite kind of problem – one which, when left to its own devices, will just go away. Please update this thread with a photo of the padlock on Murky’s doors when they go under.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Hahahah
I remember when a customer was a jerk to me when I was serving coffee… he started by screaming “you expect me to drink this shit hot”… and i said it’s coffee… he said “it’s fucking hot outside you crazy bitch” so i explained he could order it iced… then i made him a new one and he told me white girls were pieces of shit. and kept going on about the hot drink so i poured it out next to him, looked at him and said “the conversation regarding that particular coffee is now closed.” he was surprised for some reason
the dude who wrote this blog was totally not a dick.. he didn’t launch is drink at the barrista because he didn’t like it… only to have the barrista explain that drink actually belonged to someone else. In the world of asshole v. asshole this sounds like fair game to me
July 14th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
I used to work as a tea barista at a high-quality tea shop. It’s against my religion to drink powdered green tea with lemon or sweetener, but despite what I might think about people who do such a thing I’d still sell it to them sans commentary. I’m there to sell a product, not condescend to the customers. If they like it with sweetener (and matcha is an acquired taste) then that’s the way they like it, and if I want them to like it my way I should offer them free samples, not put them down.
Condescending to your customers is a great way of making certain you have none. The tip note was uncalled-for, but hey – I’ve done that kind of thing too. It’s understandable.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I just want to say that I work at Starbucks, and you’re pretty much my hero right now. You ARE damn right; you can do whatever you’d like with those shots of espresso and that cup of ice that you paid for!! if you were feeling daring enough, you would have the absolutely right to pour them over you’re head and dance around singing show tunes [though I don't recommend it because thats one of those things you'd probably look back on and say "hmm... i wish i'd thought that through a bit more."]!
July 14th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Hi Jeff, I googled “mango viviano” 2 find out about starbucks new drink but ended up here.
Im confused.
So the 1st barista wouldnt give you teh 3esp w ice, but then when u went for a 2nd drink he did give it 2 u?
Or was that a 2nd or a diff barista?
July 14th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Jeff Simmermon and his murky coffee “policy” could have been an alternate on the old Seinfeld show for the soup Nazi.
July 14th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Actually, I think I’m with Murky on this. 1. No means No, even if you think it’s stupid. 2. See no. 1. 3. Still feel like it’s stupid, own your own coffee shop. 4. Don’t tell Van Gogh that you’d prefer his Sunflowers to be purple, it makes you an asshole.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Seriously… This is the funniest coffee shop story I have ever heard… and I work at a coffee shop. And I Am So Subscribing to Your RSS Feed.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
awesome. I’m glad you stuck up to those wankers.
I’m even more impressed that your blog post on how stupid it was has become such a big hit.
Much respect from Down Under.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
Don’t know if anyone has piped up with this yet, but as a barista myself, I’d like to explain why espresso over ice (as opposed to Americanos or any other “diluted” espressos) compromises taste.
From the time the shots are pulled from the portafilter, you have ten seconds before the shots begin to degrade. It loses its creme (the brown foam top), turns black, and will taste bitter. Mixing the shots with a good amount of some other liquid slows this process. Mixing them with ice doesn’t. The ice cools the espresso, which also affects the taste, without diluting it, which would keep it from immediately going bad.
So, that’s where the quality control comes from. However, many people either don’t taste the difference, haven’t had the opportunity to taste the difference, or like/don’t mind how “bad” espresso tastes. All of which are fine. As long as you know what you’re getting and don’t give the shop a reputation for bad espresso.
I do think the fuck you note was a little much when the purpose is to give you the highest-quality experience. Though maybe David or Nick could have explained WHY this policy is in place instead of loftily proclaiming it’s “Not Okay” and “just don’t do it.” Of course that would make no sense to the customer and be rather infuriating.
July 14th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Wow. I mean, sure you were probably over the line with your “tip”, but that guy threatening to punch you in the dick the next time you walk in? Someone’s been harboring a little anger, huh? If the owner honestly thinks that pissing off customers with “policies” is a good idea, how long can he expect to stay in business? He’s your typical know-it-all snob with 100% knowledge in his field (not that it deserves any bragging rights), but 0% knowledge in customer service. Customer service = repeat business ($). Knowledge = book deal. Or maybe a spot as a journalist for a snobby coffee publication. Either way, you can expect me to boycott the ridiculous policy-happy Nick.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:17 am
hilarious! in May (but it felt August already) I was in Ostuni, in the region of Puglia (Italy), a nice little white town on a hill that reminded me of some Star Wars movie set. There I discovered their version (I think) of iced coffee, which I immediately copied here in my hometown, Genoa.
Order an espresso and a glass of ice cubes. Add sugar in the coffee according to taste, stir, then pour it into the glass, stir a bit more and drink. Pure summer heaven, an experience quite unlike my 4 days in NY, which where a coffee hell, especially at Starbucks. Hey, *we* invented baristas as such, if not the from-hell persuasion, so down with coffee snobs!
July 15th, 2008 at 12:23 am
i work in a video store. all day long i rent people movies that i would never ever watch. the way the barrista acted is the same as if i refused to help a customer find or rent a movie because i didn’t like it. the barrista is a bad employee and the owner behaves as if he is unfamiliar with the basics of service industry business practices. they have a RULE that you cant ASK QUESTIONS about the $5 hot chocolate?
idiot. idiot. idiot.
this guy is the uwe boll of the coffee world. i fully support you.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Wow, you are such a douche. This is everything that’s wrong with the American consumer.
“What? You have a specific store policy!!?? Fuck you, I’m the customer! Dance, monkey, or no dollar!”
If you’ve had as many crappy jobs in the service sector as you say you’ve had, don’t you remember how much you hate self-righteous assholes who feel indignant when something they want isn’t available on a menu? I guess the lesson wasn’t learned.
July 15th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Personally I would have been a bit more smart assed about it & drawn either espresso being poured on ice, or a stick figure pouring espresso on ice & saying such. Outcome depending upon how artistic I was feeling & conforming to any timre restraint.
on a semi-random side note: Just remeber kids Al Capone was jailed for tax evasion… The goverment doesn’t like it when you try to skip out on the tab.
viva la French Press!
July 15th, 2008 at 12:55 am
i remember when murky coffee was a place that was worth a shit. i used to go there for tea and pastries back when it was a REAL neighborhood place called common grounds. it had comfy couches and board games and no ridiculous, self-important policies about snoozing in the warm sun under a window or what you could drink or how. it was a place that welcomed its customers and served them well. then again, that was before clarendon went over the the dark side known as the cheesecake factory.
i won’t set foot in murky coffee. never would. that place was a self-righteous yuppie fraud from the start, and their products aren’t worth drinking, much less paying for. i don’t need their wifi — i can afford my own internet at home. and they can keep their passion about coffee. what a waste of a thing to be passionate about. it’s brown water, people! wake the fuck up!
back when that establishment was really a neighborhood place, i could have ordered a green tea with two shots and a side of chai and the barristas would have said, “hey man, enjoy.” when they passed it to me. but hey, i like my coffee black — no sugar, no cream, no judgment from the wage jockey working for my tips. save your opinion, coffee boy.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:23 am
I’m not sure if this has been brought up yet as I’ve only been able to sit through 80% of these comments, but I think this is an important point.
Is no one bothered by the fact that the employee in question started off this whole thing by implying that the customer was intending to steal from the establishment he works for based on his drink order? I accept and give thanks to places that try to make my coffee better. But to start off a transaction like this one with being told “your going to steal from us” is just wrong.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:28 am
this reminds me of all of the elderly people i know who drink their red wine ice cold, (my grandpa actually adds ice), or some of my friends who order their steaks well done. i may have my opinions about preserving product quality, but in the end, what would make me care so much about what people’s individuals tastes are? what kind of douche actually puts product before people? Those are some screwed up priorities. I mean, it’s a business, right? Not a cause, not a regime, and definitely not something to hold over peoples heads as if it were sacred. It’s his right to run his business however he wants, but at what cost? he lacks character in the worst way.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:34 am
The barista could have been polite and friendly by recommending the americano in the first place. Or he could have said “I’m not allowed to, but you can with your cup of ice.” But no, he decided to be a jerk about it. This kinda pisses me off even tho I don’t like coffee. I like the smell of it, go figure.
July 15th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Of all the pretentious assholes who ever opened a business, this clown Nick takes the cake.
-jcr
July 15th, 2008 at 1:40 am
The really funny thing is that coffee tastes like shit anyway. I think that Nick and his minions are too tweaked out to have any sense of proportion.
jcr
July 15th, 2008 at 1:45 am
[...] Jeff Simmermon gets un-cool advice from a barista what he should not do with his purchased espresso. (via boingboing) « FAIL Blog [...]
July 15th, 2008 at 1:46 am
I’m concerned there is a place called Murky Coffee…that sounds a bit dodgy!
July 15th, 2008 at 1:50 am
Murky Coffee Owner: “No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it).”
The mind boggles at what could be going on with that…
July 15th, 2008 at 2:18 am
Dude, you’re drinking way too much coffee. All that aggression is unwarranted. Get real.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:25 am
The barrista should not condescend. It is the customer who is paying his wages, condescending is a no no.
What he should do is educate. He could say: ‘we do not work with coffee like that here because . Allow me to offer you ‘
For me that works. I have had some really good experiences with people who showed me a better way to do things.
Although I don’t like the condescending tone, I do like the fact that the man takes his job seriously enoough to care about the detail. He is not some dead-eye who plonks coffee in a cup, on with the next guy.
There is honor in doing a good job, whether it s pouring a good cup of coffee or being a star athlete, or a good politician. I’d much rather have someon who cares about their job than those who can’t be bothered.
Condescending demeans people, education lifts them up.
July 15th, 2008 at 2:48 am
one has to draw the line in the sand somewhere. i’m sure you felt backed into a corner. i mean, how would a well-adjusted individual act otherwise? it’s certainly a case of grossly mistaking a ‘tradition’ for staunch policy. where is the science that they use to impose their tradition on you, their customer. if you did not exist, their policy would cease to bother them.
if a person cannot have coffee served to them the way they desire, what is next? will the car dealer try to convince me that fusia is clearly the color that i must choose instead of black? our personal liberties are being chipped away each and every day. one must realize that at some point, a stand has to be made. the issue is this: accepting poor coffee service today leads to accepting warrantless wiretaps tomorrow. good on you for recognizing your civil liberties!
July 15th, 2008 at 2:49 am
This place is absolutely ridiculous, as is the owner. I have to agree…
July 15th, 2008 at 3:03 am
In case ayone hasn’t noticed, USA is currently going bankrupt! You will all have much larger things to kvetch about shortly.
July 15th, 2008 at 3:37 am
This went a little over the top on both sides, but I was particularly disappointed in Murky Coffee’s response to this. Any good PR team would fill their drawers at the sight of such a childish response.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:29 am
I stopped frequenting Murky almost a year ago after I became increasingly frustrated with the surly service, and inane rules. The truth is that the owner lives in his own world by his own rules. He recently was discovered to have diverted hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales tax at a location he had in D.C. Not only does he have no regard for the customer, he has no regard for real, tangible rules.
Starbucks brews a better cup of coffee and that is saying something.
July 15th, 2008 at 4:56 am
For the record, this is when and where you became a total prick:
I interrupted. “You’re goddamned right you can’t stop me,” I said. “I happen to have a personal policy that prohibits me from indulging stupid bullshit like this — and another personal policy of doing what I want with the products I pay for.” Then I looked him right in his big wide eyes and poured the espresso onto the ice.
What the hell is wrong with you? You’re an adult. Act like one. Adults solve problems – not escalate them.
Pathetic.
– MDT
July 15th, 2008 at 5:30 am
I’m totally with you on this one, Jeff. I wrote off Murky Coffee a long time ago precisely because of the surly baristas. Maybe if this clown Nick realized how many people avoided his establishment because of that, he’d rethink some of his “policies” and fire a few asshole employees.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:37 am
NO SOUP FOR YOU
July 15th, 2008 at 5:44 am
Service industry – the whole point is that you serve people. It’s fairly simple. If you don’t serve me what I want, I’ll go elsewhere.
I refuse to think of them as baristas, that’s just idle pomposity.
Why wouldn’t the ‘Coffee Machine Attendant” argue that I shouldn’t put sugar in my coffee, or dip biscuits into it, or put too much milk in. Surely those are just as detrimental to the taste. But that’s my choice and if you don’t let me make that choice, I’ll find somewhere else.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:51 am
Wow, are these guys dicks.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:53 am
I think the guy from Murky Coffee is right, you should be punched in the dick.
July 15th, 2008 at 5:57 am
Who cares if it “compromises taste?” If that is how I want to drink it, than that is probably how I LIKE to drink it. Terribly sorry if my taste experience differs from yours.
Now, the coffee boy (can we stop giving them inflated titles like “barista” they pour coffee) might have thought you were about to make a dreaded “ghetto Latte”, such as the owner seems so terribly terrified of. Never stopping to think that the customer might actually enjoy an Espresso over ice.
To quote from above? “This guy is the uwe boll of the coffee world.”
Yup, and neither one will ever get my dollars.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:09 am
Having read Nick’s response, I sent him the following email, and I included my name and address.
–
I’m signing this note with my name and address. I’m not using any cuss words or insults or threats of physical violence.
You can see I live in Silver Spring, MD. That’s DC area, and I make it in to Arlington from time to time. Potentially I’m a customer of yours, though I don’t think I’ve ever been in your shop.
You had a chance to respond to Jeff Simmermon, and a wide audience to see your response, and you chose to do it an obnoxious way that only made you and your shop look worse. You are contemptuous of your customers, you are a pettifogger, and you use racist language. The term “ghetto latte” is inherently racist.
A month from now, if I happen to walk or drive past Murky Coffee, I won’t remember why I don’t like Murky Coffee. I’ll just remember that there’s something about the shop that left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I won’t go in.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:09 am
hey…
thanks. i am now dumber for stumbling upon this childish rant.
my barista was mean to me.
we don’t ice espresso
i gotta go rebuild new orleans now…
get a job or a hobby or a life.
504
July 15th, 2008 at 6:28 am
The baby Jesus sees what you’ve done with your espresso
July 15th, 2008 at 6:36 am
After reading Jeff’s rant and Nick’s reply: I have to stay switzerland and commend Jeff on his “vulgar-tip” and Nick from Murky Coffee on threatening to “punch you in the dick”. I am in love with how much you both clearly love coffee. You should really be making-out.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:37 am
I think you need a hobby as the fact that you freaked out over something so stupid.
Heres a tip:
Don’t sweat the small stuff.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:42 am
Hey Barista, there’s always gonna be a schmuck who’s gonna put ketchup on his filet mignon. You might be right, but he still has final say.
July 15th, 2008 at 6:50 am
OK, follow me here. Murky Coffee’s roasted beans come from Counter Culture Coffee:
http://murkycoffee.com/shtml/faq.shtml
Counter Culture Coffee has a page describing the “perfect iced coffee”:
http://www.counterculturecoffee.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=574&Itemid=
and at the bottom of this page is a promo link to Imbibe Magazine’s “2008 Ultimate Summer Drinks Guide”:
http://www.counterculturecoffee.com/docs/Imbibe_icedcoffee_2008.pdf
At the bottom of the sidebar on the fourth page of that guide (marked page 42 in the PDF) is the following paragraph:
“Some cafes don’t serve iced coffee at all — only iced Americanos. When ice rubs up next to ice cubes, things can sour, literally. But with good technique, skilled baristas can make great tasting iced espresso.”
Just thought that string of facts was a bit ironic, given Nick’s idiotic *insistence* on the horror of iced espresso. I guess he and his baristas should just be exhibiting better technique…
July 15th, 2008 at 7:01 am
The customer service debate is beside the point. The real crux of the matter is the fact that we have all these people walking around talking about coffeemaking as an “art.” I suppose that’s what happens with bourgeois kids who have never seen a craft before — they get these airs about the mundane idea of doing something well.
July 15th, 2008 at 7:04 am
I also love, for pure irony’s sake, that the current top post on one of the blogs Nick co-authors is all about how putting red wine over ice isn’t heresy:
http://airsusie.blogspot.com/2008/07/reds-on-ice-its-not-heresy.html
July 15th, 2008 at 7:04 am
Seriously,
it’s just an incident over coffee.
Get over it kids.
July 15th, 2008 at 7:11 am
I used to work in a coffee shop a lot like Murky, and we never pulled this. I also frequent one of Murky’s barista-contest rivals in NC when I’m there and they don’t care about icing espresso either.
I was in Murky this weekend and while I didn’t have that same experience, I’ve been less than satisfied with their service (except on Saturdays — that staff is pretty good). On Sunday I got glared at for asking for decaf at 4 pm — it’s not my fault that if I have stimulants after 2 pm I can’t get to sleep. And I know it tastes like chemical garbage, but I’d like to get to bed before 2 am if I have work the next day!
July 15th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Seems to me there’s two types of customers: purists and the easy-going type. Seems Murky only wants purists. No problem– easy-going-types, by their nature, will walk a few extra blocks and go somewhere else.
I have never seen a group of purists get together for very long before they start to argue about what’s right, and what’s Not Okay. This is why, usually, no one likes them. They don’t even like themselves.
I live in Seattle, and I have a cousin who works Starbucks corporate. (Does that make me a coffee expert? Nah, I don’t like the stuff). He tells me coffee drinkers come in a few forms: purists, people on the go, people looking for a treat, and people killing time. Starbucks caters to ALL of them.
Call their coffee bad if you want, purists– it’s your own fault for not telling them exactly how to make it (which they WILL do).
July 15th, 2008 at 7:36 am
I’m shocked that any of you tip baristas or coffe preparers of any sort. If I don’t have to sit down to consume it or it comes in a little brown paper bag, there’s no tip coming.
Do you tip at McDonalds?
July 15th, 2008 at 7:36 am
wow, i can’t believe the owner of murky is defending that douchebag. from his public response:
Nobody’s perfect, and maybe David could have chosen different words or a slightly different tact in responding to Jeff Simmermon’s request. But that’s life.
“THAT’S LIFE?” that’s your justification for allowing your employees to act like total a-holes? well, buddy, i’m done with murky, i’ll metro to dupont to get some decent coffee if i have to. that’s life.